Hello everyone and good morning! It’s been a while since I’ve talked about raiding here but with my recent return to WoW and after seeing all those adverts for pugs in trade chat it got me thinking about raiding again and about a problem I had before as a raid leader. Some information has been modified to protect the guilty. So I’m curious to see what would have been your solution to my little problem.
Let me set the stage first. You are the raid leader of a “hardcore casual” guild, one of those guilds made up of above average raiders with a few casuals who want to try to raid thrown in. You guys are not raiding that often to keep it casual and you’re not the first to clear content but still, you’re getting somewhere and life is mostly good in the guild. Overall, a fun place to be and a fun gang to raid with.
Then someday the new uber-dungeon gets released and everyone jumps in with both feet, eager to clear content and get all the new sweet loot. Progress is made at first but it’s slower than usual, more wipes are happening and you can feel a bit of frustration building. You tell everyone that it’s normal because this raid is really harder and everyone needs play their best to clear the place. Still you struggle more and more as time goes on up to the point where no progress is made at all. It feels as if you’ve hit the brick wall.
So like any good raid leader you start to investigate everything about your raid and members to uncover what exactly is giving you so much trouble. Is it the bosses, the difficulty, someone not performing? Whatever it is you need to find it fast because it’s starting to turn this fun guild into a pressure cooker ready to explode. Fun and casual guilds can only sustain so many wipes before things go sour. Then one night, you find the problem.
Your problem is rather simple in fact, it’s simply one of the healers who can’t keep up with the raid. While the fights were easier he could handle it but with the increased difficulty he just can’t keep up and this is making the raid wipe… time after time. And it’s when you realize you have a real problem.
You see, this particular healer is a pillar of the guild. Someone who’s liked by everyone, who makes everyone laugh, who’s helped everyone out when they really needed it. Without him the guild wouldn’t be the same. Still, the pillar just can’t keep up with the raid despite your tries at having him improve and its becoming clear that you have to do something before everyone just leave for other guilds who are not wiping.
So how would you handle this? What would be the correct way of doing this? I know I failed by keeping my mouth shut and trying to have the healer improve but tensions and frustration got the guild down first.
Its an interesting one and a tough topic for sure.
For me raiding is entirely about dependance on your team and group to play to the best of their ability and as you point out improve and evolve to a variety of encounters and difficulties.
In the case above I think it really depends on your relationship with the player themselves, having been the ‘underperforming player’ myself I was quite embarrassed when I was pulled up but also grateful in the way that it was dealt with i.e. I got a lot of advice on my gear, spec, rotation, gameplay style etc.
Basically the GM had a quiet word with me before he let rip in the forums with all the collected data .i.e boss dps, healing statistics and indeed pretty much named and shamed the slackers (whom I was the worst offender). I respected the people enough to drop out of the raids until I had learned my spec and role better and I think it was the best for us both, I soon returned a much better player and a lot more confident in my ability. I guess I was just a really average player that took raiding and my team mates for granted.
The trouble dealing with tanks and indeed healers is they need to be handled with kid gloves as they dont really like being told they need to buck up their gameplay or they need to have a look at how they do things (in my experience).
In summary its never nice to get told you are holding the rest of the group back but its even worse not knowing and it effecting other peoples enjoyment. I guess if you want to dine at the big kids table aka raiding you need to learn to take the knocks and advice of your GMs. If you cant take the advice or take a big strop then raiding might not be the place to play.
Soz for the long reply 😉
Don’t be sorry, I love long replies!
I really wanted to do what your GM did there but I was afraid of the healer taking it bad and I knew that if he left it was the instant death of the guild. Like you said it takes kid gloves. That and we had a shortage of healers so I wasn’t sure we’d find a replacement.
Still, I suppose if there’s a next time I’d want to try for an approach like your GM did and be more upfront with the fact I intend to do that.
yup healers and tanks are definately a different breed.
Another possible way around it bar suffering in silence is to hold a meeting with just the healers and discuss with them what mechanics they are unsure of, perhaps even change their roles around ie. tank healer moves to offtank/group healer etc. Whilst it may be a slight cheat it does force them to learn new mechanics, playstyle and push themselves a bit further.
Being forward and being able to approach people is a great sign of a leader, handling any potential fallout which may occur is another 😉 The fear is always the reaction to criticism but again you would have to question why someone is raiding if they cannot accept they have to improve.
I’ve seen and been GM of guilds who fell apart after a dissection of failed raids, its not nice but its part and parcel of the game these days especially with the number of players who guild hop to try jump up the raiding ladder.
I’ve been a raid leader for exactly the type of guild you are talking about, and have come across that problem (someone not keeping up with the raid) many, many times before.
The first thing I have to say is, don’t be afraid to be a hard ass. If the raider isn’t keeping up, you have to tell them. It’s bad news to keep it to yourself, it’ll just cause more problems down the road.
That said, letting the person know doesn’t have to be a drama-laden fiasco. If possible, have some numbers/stats to back yourself up, show the person why you have your concerns. Discuss it in a private tell, or in a private channel in Vent…key word there, PRIVATE, no need to embarrass anybody. I’m definitely not a fan of the public shaming approach, it’s unnecessary and degrading, and that is not something I personally promoted in my raids.
Then offer to help them improve their performance. If it’s a rotation or mechanic issue, point the person to some strategies or theorycrafting sites for their class. If it’s a gear issue, schedule some time in your guild calendar asking if people want to help because so-and-so wants to farm some badges or try for a certain piece of loot. Or, I’ll get onto one of my myriad alts to see if I can give them a better enchant/gem/leg armor using mats in the guild bank to boost their stats.
This was how I led my old guild’s raids, and it not only improves the player’s performance it also encourages guild togetherness and cooperation. Just because someone isn’t pulling their weight doesn’t mean you have to automatically boot them, in the end they might even appreciate your help and advice.
As for the healer/tank and kid gloves issue, I have to agree with both you and Pitrelli. In general, they have to be very reliable and it’s also hard to criticize them even if it’s done constructively, just because good healers and tanks are harder to come by and you don’t want to offend them unwittingly. It’s probably why when I led raids I chose to take on the main tanking role myself 😛 But I worked extra hard to make sure I did it right, knew the fights, and pulled my weight.
I think public shaming is pretty useful to be honest, what it does is reinforce the fact that raiding is a team sport if you will and and 1 or 2 dont pull their weight then it effects everyone. The fact the numbers of everything are there makes it that much transparent to the players. This in turn should motivate people to give their all not just for themselves but for their fellow players. Note I would speak to them prior to releasing anything to give them a heads up.
It is good practice for guilds to analyse data regardless of clear or wipe anyway to give an indication on strengths and potential weaknesses – not every run of course but every so often.
If you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen. As the old saying goes. That’s about as much as I have to say about people not preforming well.
I use to be more of a serious raider, especially in Everquest. These days I’m not so much. I raid for fun and a change of pace. When things start to not be fun anymore, why continue with it? Let others do the leading for a change.
Raiding isn’t what it was once to me. It was epic now it’s more of.. a bad game of twister. People are either too serious or just plain bad in most cases. It’s hard to find a medium where people are having fun while giving it their best shot.
I’d say the first thing you have to do is look at the type of guild you are, and your mission. While your direction as a guild can change, and sometimes it happens while you aren’t looking, you have to answer a few questions before you can deal with this player.
1) What’s more important – the end result or the people? Personally I want to raid with people who I enjoy hanging out with, but at the same time we all expect a high level of play. We’ve cut a lot of folks that are great to have a beer with from our raid team.
2) Do the guild goals match your own? It may be time for you to move on instead of this person changing.
3) Is getting the content down early really that important? With the nerfs (or ICC buffs) that get put in (at least with WoW, I don’t know what other game you might be referring to) is it worth more to just enjoy what you can do and wait for the game to be eased up to their level?
If at the end, you find that all these answers still point to the healer needing an adjustment, then I’d follow most of the advice already given. Approach them privately and with numbers. If you can’t show definitively where it’s their performance that is causing the issues – then you’re really standing on just one leg.
Good luck.
Another possible option to help…
Look at the gear the player/healer has and see if you can go a long ways to improving it to help him/her out while learning how to improve their playstyle? This may also help when talking to them and show you care a lot about them and their situation and are willing to put the time in to organise raid runs/heroics or whatever to get them l33t-quipped enough to take some of the slack of the play?
Best of luck with it.. managing people is indeed a tricky business and needws kid gloves and tender loving care 😉
I’ve seen that situation pop up so many times in one of my guilds (but there is usually more than one person underperforming). I’d say the best thing to do is talk to the person in question, and try to help them improve. If that doesn’t work, bench them (I know, easier said than done).
You have to think about the effect this will have on the rest of the guild. A few people underperforming will hurt your raid group. If your raid includes a few more progression-focused raiders they are going to get frustrated and are more likely to get burned out quickly.
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