This is a direct response to this post by Zelmaru . Yes!!! We have guild drama on the interwebs! I hope you all enjoy.
I wanted to start this by talking about healer tyranny but instead I’ll try to be reasonable. So we have this situation. There’s a boss that’s nomming on our collective asses. We’re not killing it because we’re having some DPS issues. We’re close, but just shy of getting there. Time and gear will fix our issues but in the meantime… We are dying.
On one hand we have Team heal that claim that the right way of beating on Baleroc is 5 dps, 2 tanks and 3 healers. Wich is the right way to do it according to the WoW gods. Failure to do so must then means that DPS is failing at their task and thus, must fix their shit and L2P. It’s not Team Heal job to pick up the slack of the DPS. There is a lot of truth to that too. If DPS is collectively failing at meeting a target, then there’s a DPS issue and DPS should be the ones to fix the problem no?
Of course…
But here comes the big But. The whole reasoning above is based upon the idea that DPS are failing at their job. They might be failing at meeting a hard target but it doesn’t mean that the issue is solely based on player skill. It could be gear, raid composition, lag issues, etc… etc… and before someone point out that guild X did it in blues, I would like to point out I am not them and I do not have that kind of beyond crazy skills.
So, if we go with the idea that the current DPS offering of skill/gear/puppies is insufficient, then we need to figure out a solution that goes outside L2P or DPS harder. The obvious answer then becomes to add more DPS players. So from the point of view of global raid success, if removing a healer or tank is feasible for that fight and if it allows a kill… why not do it? Should we refrain ourselves from a kill because it’s not the perfect method. For me this is not covering up mistakes made by your raid, but rather it’s being adaptable and showing that you can succeed anywhere.
Is it more work for the healers? Sure it is. But if they can handle it I see that as a tribute to their skill. There’s a ton of reasons for a group in a raid not to meet a certain target. Skill is one part of the equation, not the only criteria. And during that period while the DPS catches up, I think a kill helps more than no kill at all.
PS: I must tell you all on pain of no-heals that our current raid comp does not allow for 2 healing. I am sorry Master Zel
PPS: Comment s are now closed. For those of you coming here to tell me how much I suck, feel free to use my email adress.
As a raid leader, you use the composition that gets you the kill. If your raid comp allows 2 tanking baleroc with 2 healers and 6 DPS, and that’s what you need to get that kill in, that’s what you do. You just need to keep in mind that, in essence, you’re band-aiding one issue (low DPS for what the encounter demands) by leaning on another (high HPS) and introducing a lower level of resilience.
I have to admit that I’m no healer. I also admit that I cower in the face of any angry healer. I suck at the teet of their lightwell, and have been conditioned to give a great big “THANK YOU!” to any paltry heal thrown to my dps loving arse…
That being said… >.>
DROP A HEALER AND BRING THE MQoSDPS OF ANOTHER HUNTER!
Woot! <3 Hunters!!!!!
Bring on the MOAR Pew Pew, with tons of less QQ!
Zwingli/Caligan
At the risk of sounding angry, when I am actually not. I HATE the idea that the penalty for the healers performing well is to lose a healer raid spot.
Want me to suck it up so we always bring three healers? Can do.
I’ve solo tanked Baleroc. It’s a pain in the tuchus and you’re praying for good dodge streaks at the end, and often we end up with the rogue evasion tanking the last decimation blades, but it’s quite possible and it netted us our second and third kills.
I’ve read of people who solo tank/2 heal it, but that concept terrifies me.
Mwell…as much as it sucks to play hybrid if you rather not, the overall outcome is what matters to me. and healers/tanks are more flexible than DPS by definition. personally, I welcome an extra challenge, as long as switching the healers doesn’t become the easy way out to fix bad DPS performance and is not completetly taking healing apart. sometimes you THINK you can’t make it, when you can – but that goes for both sides and you really need good raid coordinators to analyze what exactly is happening. if the DPS is too low but cannot possibly improve much at this stage, yes try nicking a healer. what can you lose?
This doesn’t mean healers should always have to switch though. “help out if you can and if it’s needed” is my credo. I was never in a guild where we’d make healers switch just for switching sake, to gain 15 minutes on a raid night we were capable of clearing the way we were (also @Rhii’s comment). but the extra DPS makes a lot of difference sometime and funny enough can make life easier on the healers too, despite a diminished number. the length of a fight can be an issue for 3, but not for 2 if the speed increase is big enough. I have experienced this several times.
I’ve studied a lot of logs for that fight and the only teams I’ve seen 2-heal it were high end guilds. That’s not to say that there ARE less progressive guilds who 2 heal it, I’ve just never seen any.
You’re better off 1 tanking it. A DK or druid tank can solo tank it without too much difficulty.
Our first, and so far only kill was 2 healed. We are currently 3/7 normal! We’re struggling a bit with the dps threshold and the 6th dpser (me) pushed it over the edge. We don’t have a druid or dk tank available to go to 1 tanking, and we didn’t have very good luck when we tried it with a paladin.
I totally typoed in my comment. I meant that it’s probably possible for a moderate guild to do it (and you guys have proven that it is!), it’s just not common practice and I haven’t come across any logs of it.
It is impressive that you guys managed to two heal it. One of our main healers hasn’t been available for raids lately, so we’ve been trying the fight with 2 strong healers and one green healer. And we’re loosing people left and right. I can’t imagine what it would be like with just 2 healers.
We one-tank Baleroc every week. My husband’s bear has great dodge already and he can pop trinkets/potions to up that if a Decimation Blade is coming at a bad time. Mostly we one shot Bale but it took us a while to get our first kill. If you’ve got a bear or a DK tank, consider one-tanking it. Or a really, really good paladin tank.
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I never considered 2 tanks, 3 heals, 5 dps for Baleroc the ordained “right way”. On my 10 man we’ve used 1 tank and 3 healers for most of our kills. I think our dps is pretty good, but even with 6 of them we hit the enrage on our first kill. If it’s possible for the dps to put out a little more, they certainly should, but don’t feel constrained by doing things the “right way”.
From my healer point-of-view the right way is 1 tank and 2 healers which makes the healing rotation gloriously simple. 2 tanks and 3 healers seems like a giant pain in the ass to me.
The right way is the way that gets you a kill.
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